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Posted 7/21/2006 10:11:25 AM


Groupie

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I'm doing a heavy rock-a-billy type record and I'm looking for that loose, rattle-y sound on the snare. I'm happy with the attack, but I just want more rattle with it. Is this in the drum choice or can I get it in the recording? Any ideas?
Post #45
Posted 7/21/2006 2:21:25 PM


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Hey fixer -

Add another mic - any mic will do - on the bottom side, pointed up at the snares. Try to mimic the placement of your top mic.  Now the most important part -- you'll most likely have to reverse the polarity of the bottom mic (as always -- use your ears to decide what you like).  I usually use two 57s, bring them both into the console and blend them to the same track.  Make sure you get the blend how you like it -- unless you print to 2 tracks, you can't go back. Pay attention to the sound as you phase flip the signal -- train your ears to notice any cancellation.  This ability will pay off greatly, and it is especially important mixing drums.

Try this technique with toms -- especially the floor -- loads of bottom.  Also works with open-back guitar amps.  You get a nice, round, full addition to the front mic.  Mix to taste.

Post #46
Posted 7/21/2006 3:21:37 PM


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Polarity Reversing??  Jigga-what???

Hey, Mikey, could you go into more detail on the polarity thing?  I'm not sure if I'm with you...

Post #47
Posted 7/21/2006 3:24:56 PM


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Also, can you give me some insight on room-miking.  That seems to be the rage right now since everyone's breaking their kits into these little 3-piece bash-boxes. 

Would an ambient room mike behind the kit help that snare rattle any?

Post #48
Posted 7/21/2006 4:47:23 PM


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Hang on there, chimp-boy -- you asked 2 questions. But the room sound thing does involve phase, so let's go there first.  First, keep in mind that when I say 'flip the phase', I mean this...

not this

Also, before some dork corrects me, phase and polarity are not technically the same thing, but in every studio in the world, they are used interchangeably.  If you're into the technical stuff, read this.  Personally, I don't care why something is, just how it sounds. To make it simple, just picture the guitar amp scenario above.  When the speaker moves to make a sound, it initially moves forward; the sound hits the mic element and 'pushes' it in the same direction.  Now imagine the mic placed behind the speaker -- it's element is being 'pushed' by the reverse speaker motion -- picture the opposing mics in a push-pull situation.  If you heard both mics, you would easily hear what is happening -- the same sound is hitting the mic elements at different times (and/or in reversed polarity).  Since you have the same frequency information hitting the same place at different times, the waveforms don't line up and some frequencies are 'cancelled' out.  That is the difference that you hear.

Now, if you flip the polarity of the back mic (if you don't have a switch at your mic pre, you can get XLR adapters to do the same thing), you have effectively reversed the reverse and both signals are aligned.  Got it? Now imagine a second front mic, just moved back about a foot or so.  You have a similar situation -- the same signal hitting the mics at different times -- the two signals are out of phase.  Now do you see how important this is to miking a drum kit with multiple mics?  The same sound hitting seven or more mics at different times could be really messy...and sound like crap.  Condition your ears to hear the difference -- this is one of those things that separate the pros from the hacks. 

Post #49
Posted 7/25/2006 1:53:43 PM
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Okay, so now you're miking the snare twice and the rest of the kit with individual mics?  I'm a little lost.  Why couldn't the same "dual-miking" technique be used on the toms? 

Are there other scenarios where we're going to intentionally move the mics out of phase?

 Hey, am I out of phase?

Post #50
Posted 7/26/2006 3:58:05 PM


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Like I said, the same technique can be used very effectively on open-backed guitar amps and toms. Don't get hung up on using multiple mics on anything.  I almost always have 2-3 mics on guitar amps, 2 mics on the kick, 2 mics on the snare and I have even put 2 mics on a vocalist before.  Different mics in different places, different mics in the  same place -- either way, you can use and additional mic to capture an additional texture that the single mic does not get. 
Back to the snare example -- the top mic alone did not capture the total desired sound.  The bottom mic completed the picture. I like to put an SM57 and a 421 together in front of guitar amps -- the 57 has a midrange bite and the 421 has a more 'round' tone that complements the 57 nicely. Just make sure that you like what you hear.

With these examples, keep in mind that even though you may be phase flipping the rear or bottom mics, you are actually bringing it into correct phase relative to the front or top mic.  So, you are not really moving the mic 'out of phase,' you are bringing it closer to 'in phase.'  If you like the out-of-phase sound, that's fine.  You really need to be able to hear the difference and recognize phase issues when you hear them.

"Hey, am I out of phase? "

Actually, you are in a state of reversed polarity.

Post #54
Posted 7/31/2006 2:52:19 PM


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Cool! The bottom mic did it.  My mic pres did not have a switch, so I got an XLR adapter that flipped the phase.  Oh yeah -- I mean reversed the polarity.  I recorded the mics to 2 tracks so I could blend them later, but that gave me all the rattle I wanted.

The guitar player was using a Fender tweed with an open back, so I tried it on the guitar too.  I like this trick!

Post #64
Posted 9/13/2006 2:31:20 PM


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